Founders: Sam Means and Michael Rhee
Date Based: 2022
Location of Headquarters: Chicago,IL; New York, NY and Phoenix, AZ
Quantity of Bitcoin Held in Treasury: N/A
Variety of Workers: 3
Web site: https://wavlake.com/
Public or Non-public? Non-public
Sam Means is bringing the DIY spirit of punk rock to Bitcoin.
Means, co-founder of Wavlake, a music streaming platform that employs each Bitcoin’s Lightning Community and Nostr, has been innovating within the music business for the reason that early 2000s. From selling native exhibits to serving to handle his personal band because it toured the world to operating a significant artist merchandise enterprise, Means has put within the work and realized greater than a handful of classes alongside the best way.
Now, he’s taken these classes and mixed them with what he’s realized from his ten years of expertise within the Bitcoin house to assist create Wavlake, a music streaming platform that cuts out the intermediary, permitting followers to stream sats to on to their favourite musicians. Wavlake is a counter to Spotify, well-known for hardly paying lots of the artists featured on its platform.
In my interview with Means, we focus on his journey within the music business, how he discovered and realized about Bitcoin, the method of making Wavlake and the way he balances his time between Wavlake and his different enterprise endeavors.
A transcript of our dialog, edited for size and readability, follows under.
Frank Corva: You’re the co-founder of Wavlake, the founding father of the Lightning Retailer, and I simply realized you additionally personal a band merch firm. Is that this appropriate?
Sam Means: Yeah. So, I ought to most likely cease calling it my foremost enterprise, however my oldest enterprise is Hiya Merch. We do e-commerce, display printing for tour achievement, direct-to-customer achievement. It is like a one-stop store for merch if you happen to’re a band.
Corva: I’d like to listen to the way you steadiness all of that, however let’s begin with how you bought concerned with music.
Means: I’ve executed form of every little thing. [It started] with punk bands. A few of these bands had been enjoying in Mesa, Arizona, and I used to be from the suburbs. I bought a automotive, piled all my pals in it and we began going to $5 punk exhibits in basements. That modified every little thing for me.
I began working at a venue after which began a promotion firm with a pair pals. The entire time I used to be in bands. I used to be in three bands with this dude — we simply stored beginning bands till one among them was profitable. We bought signed to a significant label, bought dropped, after which determined to do every little thing ourselves.
We began our personal label, bought distribution and labored with a extremely cool administration firm. We used all of the DIY stuff that we realized at “punk college.” We constructed up a extremely good following. We had been touring continuously.
All via that, I actually solidified all of the music enterprise stuff. I used to be at all times the accountable dude within the band that was coping with merch and getting paid.
Lengthy story quick, I wore a number of hats within the enterprise and finally began a merch firm. We had a buddy who realized learn how to display print. We arrange an e-commerce retailer in 2005, which was very troublesome to do. Shopify did not exist then.
Quick-forward to 2014, I would been listening to about Bitcoin from a buddy of mine. He is nonetheless round. Shout out to Mike Jarmuz.
Corva: Mike Jarmuz from Lightning Ventures?
Means: Yeah. He is a buddy of mine from center college and was a part of that entire story I simply instructed. He began the label that put out my first band’s first document.
He additionally instructed me about Bitcoin. He’d moved to New York, began a bar and was one of many first locations in New York to have a Bitcoin ATM.
By this level, I used to be utilizing Shopify for Hiya Merch, and I noticed that you can settle for Bitcoin with Shopify. I used to be like, “Alright, properly, I am nonetheless form of sketched out by this, but when some folks need to give it to me in trade for band merch, I suppose that is okay.”
In 2017, I heard concerning the Lightning Community. I arrange a few nodes — did not know what to do with them — and simply turned them on. I used to be similar to, “I am serving to” [laughter].
A few years later, I heard Paul from Sphinx on Marty Bent’s podcast. I began trying into it and noticed that you can add music to it. I used to be like, “What’s stopping me from making a Sphinx room and simply calling it just like the Lightning Music Room or one thing?”
So, I did that and uploaded all my music to. I took an RSS feed, put it into the podcast index and was like, “Hey everyone, look, you’ll be able to stream music over Lightning.”
Corva: Wow.
Means: Then, I began this factor known as the Lightning Retailer. It was simply an experiment. I mentioned, “I’ll simply put out a bunch of bootleg music shirts, like West coast punk mashups on T-shirts with delicate Bitcoin issues and discover all of the tremendous huge music nerds in Bitcoin if there are any.”
“In the event that they know who the Descendants and Black Flag are and so they’re into Bitcoin, there is perhaps an opportunity they may a minimum of like — trigger I am not a technical individual — stroll me via what must technically occur so as to make this truly occur as an alternative of simply fumbling.”
Corva: That appears like a enjoyable option to go fishing for assist.
Means: It was completely fishing. Individuals had been actually like, “What is that this? What are these shirts? We will not even purchase them as a result of you don’t have any liquidity in your node.” I had folks from Lightning Labs DMing me being like, “Hey, dude, like these items seems to be tremendous cool, however nobody should purchase it as a result of you have no liquidity.” I used to be like, “What’s that?” It was actually enjoyable. I did that within the very starting of ‘21.
Then, I began going to extra conferences and connecting folks with people who had been constructing issues adjoining to what I used to be making an attempt to see occur.
After which this dude Michael Rhee from Chicago constructed this factor known as Wavlake. It wasn’t precisely what I hoped to see, but it surely was one thing. It was like, “Okay, this man made a factor the place you’ll be able to join it to your node and you may add music and receives a commission with out having to add it via Anchor or one thing. It [wasn’t live] but, although.
So, I helped him take a look at it earlier than he launched it. I used to be additionally serving to with Lightning Ventures at that time. I bought Michael on a name with [the team at Lightning Ventures] to see how we may assist him.
It was simply too technical, although. It was a cool thought, but it surely simply wasn’t precisely catching on for numerous causes. After that, I form of misplaced contact a bit of bit.
Then, I ran into him at a Bitcoin convention in 2022. He was like, “Hey, I am gonna need to get a job. Solely 27 folks have signed up for [Wavlake].”
I used to be like, “Okay, do not cease as a result of such as you’re on the suitable path. Someone wants to do that.” Then, I had this concept. I known as him and mentioned, “I believe you might want to change your complete factor. Would you need to possibly simply begin over and launch a [new] product?
Corva: When was this?
Means: October of ‘22. We reorganized the entire enterprise and began over. In January of ‘23, we relaunched with a very completely different product and model.
By that summer season, we had met Ainsley Costello. She grew to become the primary Wavlake celebrity. She’s bought a brand new music out at the moment known as “Individuals Pleaser,” and folks ought to test it out.
Then, Nostr got here alongside nearly instantly after we launched. We’d had this long-term imaginative and prescient of how we may make this a social factor down the highway, however there aren’t a number of social layers on RSS. Nostr was primarily only a second option to distribute these recordsdata. We had been like, “Hey, we will publish on RSS after which publish to relays.”
Corva: Is Wavlake a Nostr consumer?
Means: One among our merchandise for artists is named Wavlake Studio. That is the place you add your music. Whenever you add your music, it distributes to RSS.
We mechanically push that to the podcast index and any consumer that is studying that index and has a monetization functionality can have the power to drag that music into their library. It’s tagged music.
Something pulling within the music tag goes to see that library after which we concurrently push it. We created a Wavlake relay that we push it out to.
So, each music will get revealed as a Nostr observe, however pushes off of RSS. It simply occurs on an internet site and will get pushed to those channels. So, simply consider them as distribution channels.
After we began critically desirous about Nostr, we determined, “Properly, there’s a few issues right here we will do. One, we will permit folks to log in with Nostr on Wavlake. So, if you happen to simply need to be a listener and you do not need to create an account, you’ll be able to simply log in along with your Nostr account and work together.”
Then, we began considering, “Okay, properly, if we’re going to make the most of Nostr for lots of social parts, most of these are going to occur in a cell app. So, we [built] a factor known as Wavman, which was our Nostr participant proof of idea.
Our cell app for iOS and Android remains to be in beta. That’s an absolute Nostr consumer. Whenever you enroll, you are given a personal key and a public key, or you’ll be able to simply log in and work together.
Corva: It sounds prefer it was a fairly natural course of.
Means: Wavlake began as a conceptual factor to see if music may work on Lightning. I needed to see it occur as a result of the potential is so robust for this factor to utterly change the infrastructure that we exist in at the moment as musicians.
In my expertise, it’s important to begin someplace. If you wish to be in a band, you’ll be able to’t simply be like, “It is enjoyable — we performed three exhibits after which broke up after which I bought a job.” You need to simply hold pushing via.
I assumed it was a good suggestion. It simply wanted some work. We’ll simply hold doing it till it really works. Or a minimum of till anyone else with much more cash comes alongside and takes the concept and makes it work.
On the very least, we could be like a spark for an even bigger thought. Possibly TIDAL comes alongside and allows this.
My final objective is simply to see this alteration the music business. I do not care who does it. If we play a small half in that, that is improbable.
Corva: For example you proceed to iterate and Bitcoin turns into extra normalized. How lengthy would it not take for Wavlake to switch one thing like Spotify?
Means: We’ve got good Bitcoin service suppliers. We’ve got wallets. We’ve got all the elemental stuff in place and dealing.
We’ve got the cash that is so robust and being talked about within the mainstream media each single day. There is a ticker for it on TV.
It is time to usher in the mainstream. It is time to usher in the normies. Let’s get them right here. And we’re not going to do this with boring…
Corva: Lectures in Austrian economics?
Means: Yeah, and like, and like steak dinners and stuff. We will carry them in with music and leisure and social media.
Bitcoin is for everybody, and we have to construct the stuff for everybody to make use of it. I believe that we’ve an excellent probability at serving to so much as a result of proper now we’re one of many foremost methods for music to waltz into each Bitcoin and Nostr.
Corva: Completely. However whilst you’re making an attempt to do that, how do you steadiness your time between Wavlake, Lightning Retailer and Hiya Merch?
Means: With Lightning Retailer, I’ve a achievement heart, however I nonetheless pack all my very own Lightning Retailer orders. I nonetheless wish to put free stickers [in the shipments]. It’s only a factor I do for enjoyable. Even when it will get form of loopy, like when Jack wears the Satoshi shirt on the Tremendous Bowl subsequent to Beyoncé and Jay-Z and issues get busy, it stresses me out, however I nonetheless will pack each single a type of orders.
With the merch stuff, I’ve a extremely good staff in Arizona that helps hold that factor going. It does not require a ton of day-to-day work.
And we’re nonetheless so small with Wavlake.
It is powerful to steadiness stuff, however I’ve at all times had a number of issues happening. I operate higher when I’ve extra issues taking place. I will solely work with issues that I believe can in the end work collectively.
So, these are a number of various things, however they’re all in the identical world. It is like, I make music, I promote merch. I promote merch for bitcoin. I am a Bitcoin individual. I’ve a music firm that is in Bitcoin and in addition has merch. All this stuff join.
Corva: How a lot do among the greater artists on Wavlake make?
Means: One of the best metric right here is that the majority artists who’re lively on Wavlake are averaging about 12 cents a zap.
It isn’t concerning the complete quantity that they’ve made. Ainsley Costello has been on a number of podcasts saying she made $1,500 in her first couple of months, and he or she had solely made possibly $600 in her entire lifetime as a musician. She’s 19 or 20 now and has been doing this since she was a child and has solely seen $600 or $700.
It is extra about hope. Individuals who actually get it are getting it as a result of a number of these different issues like these shitcoins and NFTs which can be about being profitable actually quick — everybody’s sick of that. Artists are searching for sustainability.
Simply took Man Like Kweks. He is been very vocal about how he is like paying his utility payments with what he’s making on Wavlake.
We additionally simply did an interview with this actually nice poet OKIN who’s in a bunch known as…
Corva: Black Vulcanite?
Means: Yeah, Black Vulcanite. He made [the equivalent of] 500 Namibian {dollars} [from boosts and zaps on Wavlake] final month. That is about $80 US {dollars}.
So, yeah, there’s hope. All of this stuff are on the market that truly have an opportunity to assist folks in a sustainable approach. It should carry bands nearer to their followers, which I do know, based mostly on my expertise, is a very powerful factor.
Corva: You will be working with Bitcoin Journal on a vinyl launch. Are you able to inform me a bit of bit about this?
Means: Yeah, we did a extremely cool contest the place current Wavlake artists or new artists may simply add music to Wavlake and the 21 songs that earned probably the most sats would go to the subsequent degree. 11 artists out of these artists who made these 21 songs ended up on the document.
Man Like Kweks, Ainsley Costello and Joe Martin shall be on there. It should be obtainable at the Bitcoin convention. We’re additionally doing a live performance there on July 25, business evening, with Ainsley Costello, Joe Martin and JUSTLOUD, who’s been burned by the business and is hopeful with what’s taking place on this [Wavlake] world.
Corva: Superior. That appears like a number of enjoyable.
Means: It has been cool to seek out the Bitcoiners, and we’re joyful for all of the assist on this neighborhood. We’re simply going to maintain doing our factor.